tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1586080509912068029.post5351231702257394900..comments2023-07-04T03:04:37.725-07:00Comments on The Veteran Experience | Ben Shaw: The Other SandboxBen Shawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08280885836684955658noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1586080509912068029.post-1973003471789143862009-03-02T05:54:20.015-08:002009-03-02T05:54:20.015-08:00Since we should have sealed the borders early on i...Since we should have sealed the borders early on in the Iraq reconstruction, why have we not learned from that one mistake and sealed the borders in Afghanistan?<br>I realize this can't be a simple task but your thoughts?<br>You brought up many differences in the two countries... I've seen photos of the road bulding challenges in Afghanistan, the difficult terrian is an enormous challenge.Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1586080509912068029.post-78488471153338953312009-03-02T08:52:03.036-08:002009-03-02T08:52:03.036-08:00This post was too long, so I'll just comment w...This post was too long, so I'll just comment without having read anything but Sarah's comment. Here goes!<br><br>The US seems to have a hard time finishing its overseas tasks. How much of this is dependent on national sentiment back home?Elizabethhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07763209657254848735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1586080509912068029.post-46345273876625658822009-03-02T13:41:22.783-08:002009-03-02T13:41:22.783-08:00Answer to Sarah's question: The reason the Afg...Answer to Sarah's question: The reason the Afghan border is so difficult to secure is largely terrain-based. Rather than needing to secure a couple major arteries (like in Iraq), literally the whole mountainous area must be sealed. We lack the personnel to do this. Furthermore, I can almost guarantee that such a force would daily deal with Pakistani fighters attempting incursions. Such thing would infuriate Islamabad and the general public, and they would be even less likely to assist us in the war on terror. As is, they're virtually useless, if not altogether so.<br><br>Answer to Elizabeth's question: Why does the US seem to have a hard time finishing it's overseas commitments? Because an impatient public, fueled by an extremely unbalanced media that presents inaccurate accounts of whatever is taking place in the war, quickly dismantle whatever public momentum the effort may have once had. A great portion of the public, frankly, is unwilling to actually draw conclusions based on conversations with a genuine veteran of the conflict. It is simply easier to openly oppose it, paint the US government and DOD as the enemy, and attempt to publicly thwart whatever measure they undertake.<br><br>In short, many in the US population have resoundingly demonstrated that they care for the freedom, safety, and rights of nobody but they themselves. And even those they will quickly abandon when a price tag is attached to them (as invariably happens at some point). Americans will never truly enjoy and appreciate freedom until it has been utterly taken from them. Those few that DO understand it will fight for it, and everybody else will continue to misunderstand them, paint them as warmongers, and violent. And thus, they bask in the fruits of the warriors' efforts - perpetuated freedom. I doubt they will learn until they are oppressed, which will not be permitted to happen so long as the military continues to do its job. But, they will forever be hated for it...Ben Shaw | byshawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08280885836684955658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1586080509912068029.post-28600220607092100772009-03-02T17:12:42.418-08:002009-03-02T17:12:42.418-08:00I'm glad I could help! :) You provide very int...I'm glad I could help! :) You provide very interesting , and I believe accurate insights into this complicated problem. Securing the border is definitely the first major step to isolating the problems in Afghanistan, and ideally cutting off the supply of fighters, weapons, and ideological support. However, the increase of troops that this will take won't be popular with the American people, especially considering how short their patience is. The unbalanced reporting of the press only weakens what patience might still exist.<br><br>You talked about the religious composition of Iraq, but didn't mention anything about Afghanistan's religious makeup, other than mentioning tribalism. Is that due to the fact that their religious identities are secondary to their tribal or cultural ones? Is the Taliban a religiously motivated group or tribal? If religious, how are they aligned, in comparison to Iraq's sectarian divisions? Are there lessons learned from the religious groups in Iraq - their mindsets or possible intents - that could be applied in Afghanistan?<br><br>Also, the question of Pakistan's cultural and physical geography arises, considering their tacit support of the Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters, as well as their political interactions and relationship with the US. If the borders cannot be closed from one side, perhaps the flow can be slowed from the other side of the line. Obviously, they are allowing support of insurgencies in Afghanistan to continue, but why? What is their goal? How can we put political pressure on or persuade Pakistan to work openly against the Taliban fighers moving across the border?<br><br>I appreciate your focus on the challenges the terrain presents to the counter-insurgency effort. That essential evironmental awareness that is part of the battlefield dominance is often neglected in intel and reports by those in command. It is primarily those on the ground who appreciate and deal with the challenges presented by harsh and unforgiving terrain. It should be taken into account more often by those giving the orders.<br><br>Sorry, I guess I left that with more questions than comments! Good analysis, although, as we both know, the situation is far more complicated than any brief synopsis can explain. Still, some explanation is better than none, especially for those who have never been there themselves. (Which is me as well, despite all of my pretending at knowledge above!)Melodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05822702121223961155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1586080509912068029.post-20262324868658262732009-03-02T20:02:20.078-08:002009-03-02T20:02:20.078-08:00More answers:It is difficult to separate Islamic f...More answers:<br><br>It is difficult to separate Islamic faith from culture in both the Islamo-Arab groups in Iraq, and the Islamo-Persian, Urdu, Pashtu, etc. cultures of Afghanistan. Every aspect of their culture is linked to their faith. At times, it is difficult to distinguish which is the root of certain customs and behaviors. They are too tightly linked.<br><br>What political (or other) pressure would help gain Pakistani cooperation in sealing their side of the border? I do not know, namely since the entire region along the border appears decidedly sympathetic to the Taliban and Al Qaeda cause. At the risk of sounding perhaps barbaric, they must be completely silenced before any alternative view has any chance of taking root. Yet, since this is just as much cultural as it is religious, it requires perhaps a nearly-impossible reversal of their ideologies and thinking. Islamic culture (since it is more than a religion) does not align terribly well with any sort of democracy.<br><br>If I speak in general terms here, and I do, it is because I truly do not know the answer to your questions. What I know I have not gained from personal observation, but gleaned it from Afghanistan veterans, the news, and personal reading (particularly Rory Stewart's "The Places In Between."). I highly recommend that book for its glimpse into a very closed, radically different culture.<br><br>As for Pakistan, however, they show no sign of the conviction that the Taliban and Al Qaeda are a threat to their lifestyle and country. In fact, their actions in the past few months are almost a direct reversal to the gains made under the leadership of Pervez Musharraf. The country, as whole, is changing. And frankly, mostly in the wrong direction. They are increasingly tolerant of radical, violent Islamic elements. This position, unfortunately, is poisonous to their neighbor Afghanistan, which has a reasonable shot at being among the first halfway democratic Persian countries in the world.Ben Shaw | byshawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08280885836684955658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1586080509912068029.post-69920970234676444962009-03-03T06:03:21.601-08:002009-03-03T06:03:21.601-08:00One thing easily overlooked is that the US has not...One thing easily overlooked is that the US has not prosecuted any war to a satisfactory ending since World War II...unless you count Grenada or Panama, and they were pretty sorry excuses for wars.<br><br>Traditional wars are either won or lost. The governments are defeated and we win. Then we occupy the country until we are ready to leave. This is certainly not possible when you are fighting, not the government, but <br>the way of life. We have sadly embarked on a modern crusade and it can not succeed any more than those of 1000 years ago. <br><br>The answer is to eradicate the Taliban, and destroy the Al Queda network and leave. They will hate us for another 1000 years. However, we remove the threat to our national security.Uncle Caesarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1586080509912068029.post-89528582259052665082009-03-04T17:45:24.218-08:002009-03-04T17:45:24.218-08:00Years ago when the war was new and chat was buzzin...Years ago when the war was new and chat was buzzing on various reputable sites, I visited a political chatroom hosted by an actual government employee, and in this room I suggested that we start schools over there that would feed the children, offer computer learning and other perks, and at the same time indoctrinate and/or teach them the way of peace. One of the higher ups in the online forum counter suggested that American men take wives from over there and raise the kids to be Americans. I liked my idea better.Poethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12340456181501341820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1586080509912068029.post-62944963510984495422009-03-04T17:48:58.555-08:002009-03-04T17:48:58.555-08:00What one may find interesting is that, while there...What one may find interesting is that, while there are certainly a large number of Vietnam veterans who have zero interest in returning or even associating with Vietnamese, there is a similarly large number that fell in love with the culture, the social constructs, and also married Vietnamese women. It was not, however, part of a govt plan to better the country with "American genes." The secret to winning a counterinsurgency (though very few successful models exist) is to win the hearts and minds of the populace. Such measures have begun, but will necessarily take time, patience, and a tremendous committal of resources.Ben Shaw | byshawhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08280885836684955658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1586080509912068029.post-72924221060508812272009-03-06T10:53:54.999-08:002009-03-06T10:53:54.999-08:00"Now it is not good for the Christian's h..."Now it is not good for the Christian's health to hustle the Aryan brown<br>for the Christian riles and the Aryan smiles<br>and it wearth the Christian down<br><br>And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased<br><br>and the epitaph drear: "A fool lies here who tried to hustle the East""<br><br>-Rudyard KiplingUncle Caesarnoreply@blogger.com